So. When they ram your car and jump out with guns. Without ID’ing themselves. Is running them over in self defense allowed?
Legally or morally?
Legally. Already know the answer to the other one.
American here. Our mainstream news outlets barely covers these ICE raids. We’re in a full blown dictatorship. Now even Reddit is perma banning anyone who suggests that the 2nd amendment was created for situations like this.
I think I have noticed a lot of the SS Nazi thugs are rolling up in Jeep Waggoneers. Is this a thing?
Nazi America working hard on bringing the fourth Reich into reality.
The line I’ve seen repeatedly is that White America is getting to see how African Americans and Latino migrants have been living since The War On Crime started.
Every day, we get to see another Rodney King or George Floyd. Wave after wave of police acting with utter impunity, doing unspeakable violence, while liberal leadership throws up it’s hands or turns a blind eye.
FFS, this was in Chicago. Blatantly illegal, breaking a couple dozen state laws. The mayor, the governor, the CPD, the local prosecutors and sheriffs… where the fuck are they?
It’s honestly astounding, as somebody that lives on the left coast, how many arguments I’ve had with people up here about this.
I think that they know how BIPOC have been treated, and much like homelessness, they want to ignore it and pretend it can never happen to them. The lie that white privilege renders you unassailable, is going to get shattered. We’ll see how many of them rise to the occasion and how many bend the knee.
The lie that white privilege renders you unassailable
It’s not a lie. We’re just constricting the definition of whiteness. White people remain privileged. I’m a white guy in Houston, where a ton of the shit is going down, and I’ve never felt “safer”.
But folks who thought they were “white” enough in Pasadena are experiencing something very different.
We’ll see how many of them rise to the occasion and how many bend the knee.
Hard to rise to the occasion when there’s a boot on your neck. And in a place like Texas, it’s very hard to find someone to trust much less organize with.
I don’t begrudge folks who bend the knee to save their skin. Not when the alternative is to simply get added to the line of crucifixions.
It’s not a lie. We’re just constricting the definition of whiteness.
The fact that the definition can constrict is what I’m talking about. It is a lie that white privilege renders you unassailable, because as we see, the system can decide you’re not white after all and haul you off anyways.
My family is mixed race, so I’m very cognizant that my skin tone will not save me if they decide I’m guilty by association. I’m privileged because I’m white enough to pass, but that evaporates as soon as people run a background check and my other name comes up.
Bro it’s gonna shatter. Lol
The mayor, the governor, the CPD, the local prosecutors and sheriffs… where the fuck are they?
All holed up in their offices and wishing like hell it’ll be their turn to be able to do this sort of thing next.
That already happened. Stop pretending it’s in the future.
It’s already here.
For real. Bringing? Brought.
Next step is finding out what these 4 guns per citizen is about.
At least 3 out of 4 of it’s on the Nazis side I fear.
They’re about to be just as hungry
The aggression is insane. Not even talking at the car.
The regular police would have a conversation and at least an argument before raising guns, and it would be a last resort of dragging someone out the car to the ground.
Yeah. Would’ve thought they are in an active warzone
Active class warfare zone
the libs didn’t really care when it was only the black ‘class’ did they?
What the actual fuck are they doing? They caused that accident. I hope this woman sues the living shit out of them.
When this is all over, these fascist goons will face justice for their actions. There are accounts of every single action, and the next United States Justice Department will not handle it lightly.
We fucked up by not finishing off the Confederacy in Reconstruction, but in the wise words of the honorable George W. Bush: “There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me twi— you can’t get fooled again.”
Didn’t most Nazis also get off scot free or even get jobs in science or the government? Only 12 high profile ones didn’t. Of the 100,000 arrested for US trials, 2500 were identified ad “major war criminals”. 142 were convicted of a crime.
Not to mention US constant blocking of the prosecution of war criminals both within and outside.
Probably >99% of fascist goons will get off with zero consequences.
Yeah, but 2025 is not 1945. There’s so much more technology that I think could enable tracking all of this.
When this is all over, these fascist goons will face justice for their actions
I wish I shared your optimism of the future…
Funny that you think the brownshirts will face any consequences. You mention Bush ironically, but he’s the living example: a war criminal who never faced any consequences from his actions.
never faced any consequences from his actions.
excuse me, he was almost assaulted with a shoe at a press conference. If that’s not consequences for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, I don’t know what is
If I were this optimistic, I’d be the happiest motherfucker on earth.
Unless we show up and start fucking these people up, we’re just going to be commenting on these videos until that’s illegal and we get scared of that too.
G dubz deep cuts
How we yearn for Georgy boy over the current POTUS.
Back in myyyyy dayyyy our installed republican president was a hapless moron directed to give gaffe-filled speeches every day while his vice president was evil incarnate and they both got super rich starting wars and committed war crimes which they got out of by wrecking the global economy and that’s the way we liked it!
Satire has since died, which I mourn.
Cheney also just died, which I don’t.
As crazy as it is to say, Cheney > Trump. Both are absolute terrible pieces of shit, but at least Cheney respected the general societal rule of law and norms. He was just a greedy, power hungry tyrant, whereas Trump is also incredibly dumb, narcissistic, and cruel.
at least Cheney respected the general societal rule of law and norms
I am calm. I am balanced. I don’t want to fire anyone on Lemmy out of a giant cannon into the sun. There are emotions in my heart after reading this sentence other than hatred and anger.
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, NO HE FUCKING DIDN’T!
Whoa Cheney is dead, neat.
Well except for the war criminal part, and frankly not to get all into it but there’s some shady-as-fuck 9/11 shit he’s tied to that’s just. Trump is worse, yeah. We’ll leave it there.
I was wondering about this.
Suppose there was a fair election in 2 years (I know, I know) and suppose the dems won… would they dismantle ICE and prosecute these scum?
Not if they appoint Merrick Fucking Garland as AG,
Depends who wins the primaries.
Americans can not sue federal “agents” according to US legal precedent and current interpretations of Section 1983
Well, that needs to be amended. Yesterday.
there are at least a couple of democrats that do keep raising an amendment!
It won’t be. If anything they’ll strip more rights away.
Looks like vehicular assault to me. Not an accident.
crash. it’s called a crash. there was nothing accidental about it.
Whatever they want. This is what dictatorship looks like, zero accountability to the people. Y’all need to do something about it already or it will keep getting worse until nothing you do can stop it, even collectively. If you haven’t even done as much as talk with a friend about the state of things, I don’t want to hear, ‘But what can I do!?’. Go find people to figure that out with.
Im not so sure they would be found “at fault” by an insurer if im honest.
The damage appears to be on the front of her car, but on the side of theirs.
An insurer would likely find that while the van obviously shouldn’t have cut across, the hatchback is at fault.
On the first day with any instructor they will tell you to drive to the conditions. That means that if ICE is present, and kidnapping people, drive slowly enough that you can stop if they cut over into your lane.
That kind of damage would only occur in two ways…either they sideswiped her while changing lanes (which is exactly what the video shows them doing)…or she drove into them at an angle (which is not what the video shows).
Whether or not it was intentional, they cut her off. All she did was drive straight, in her own lane.
I’m happy to concede that I’m wrong about this.
When I was learning to drive my dad told me that if you have an accident, the insurer will assign fault to whomever has damage to the front of their vehicle.
I’ve done some very brief research and determined that I’ve been completely wrong about this for the last 26 years. Thanks for that dad.
That is a general rule of thumb to go by, but it’s just that.
I guess its relevant in the absence of additional information. However, if you have video, or witnesses, or accurate statements from those involved, those factors are more relevant.
Oh, man. I probably laughed a little too hard at this. Thanks for that, my friend. I’ll take all the humor I can get these days.
@[email protected] you previously asserted that the current regime is not fascist. Do you still stand by that statement?
I think I probably tangled with you for some other reason, so I wound up on your shit list, and now you think you know me?
Or you didn’t understand me. That’s pretty common. You seem pretty driven by some ideological virus or another. That frequently leads to confusion. Moron.
I make jokes about bannnannnas and cat pics. You’ve got the wrong guy.
But I’m glad to know that I’m in your thoughts.
Damn, I love it. You called out 4-5 boot lickers in this thread alone!
My list is longer but I got rate limited and I don’t wanna get banned for spam.
still, impressive. good work.
Where are you even finding conservatives on Lemmy? All I see are center-right who were defending Biden funding ICE until November.
Point in fact, if the goal was calling out a conservative, this ayyyyy person has utterly failed.
My views are my own, but they are certainly not conservative.I use the tag feature of Voyager.
I use the
assholetag for such people
What a couple of clowns.
@[email protected] you have previously stated that “the majority of [people arrested by ICE] do have a criminal history”. Do you still stand by that statement?
First of all, that was like, what? 2-3 months ago? Sorry, I haven’t been keeping tabs on the situation since then but I’m definitely not above changing my opinion if I see that the facts have changed.
Second, a single incident like this one doesn’t skew the overall statistics much – as long as it remains isolated. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I AGREE WITH WHAT THEY DID HERE. If the facts are correct and she is a U.S. citizen, I hope she sues for damages and wins. At the very least she should be compensated for the damage to her car, plus the emotional trauma, physical injuries (if there were any), and any time she may have missed at work.
ICE was clearly at fault here, and they should be held accountable for that. They are supposed to be working FOR U.S. citizens after all, not against them.
How would you know if people being detained have committed a crime when ICE and the government are not allowing those people due process? What happened to being ‘presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?’
Because ICE still have to verify their identify before being allowed to continue processing them. Every report I’ve read so far, even the worst ones, stated that detainees were released as soon as they could establish legal immigration status.
Remember, their only job is to enforce immigration law, nothing else. As for the immigrants who ARE criminals, we know that because they have prior convictions which WERE tried in a court of law.
…you know that’s not what’s happening right? ICE doesn’t have to verify anything before they process and deport someone. They’ve gone so far as to say that an ICE agents opinion on a person’s citizenship outweighs any proof to the contrary. Including a birth certificate.
Yes, clearly you have not been keeping tabs if you suggest it’s an isolated incident. Spoiler: It’s fucking not. And how the fuck have you not been paying attention?
I haven’t been keeping tabs on the situation since then and I’m definitely not above changing my opinion if I see that the facts have changed.
The facts haven’t changed since then. This isn’t an isolated incident. This has been going on regularly across the country. This is what ICE’s role under trump has been since day 1. This was happening 2-3 months ago. The only thing that changed is that they recently ramped up their budget.
Brother, you live in a Lemmy group that is basically dedicated entirely to documenting every single fuckup of theirs. Even if there are many, do you know how many operations they’ve done that didn’t end up victimizing any innocent bystanders?
Because that’s the information I’d like to see if you want to convince me. What percentage of ICE ops fucks up this badly, and is it on the rise, or are we just seeing more fuckups because they are doing more ops?
I do want to also leave a comment that there is value in questioning narratives. Some people see a headline and believe it without question. I also use your same argument when my MAGA cousin throws a negative headline my way about immigrants, trans, or whatever the hot topic on Fox News is.
What I do to strengthen that argument is add other data and sources. Like, if it is about an immigrant committing a crime, I will include a study that shows immigrants are less likely to commit a crime, and actually more likely to be victim of a crime.
Idk, I just didn’t want to only pile on a ‘you’re wrong’ type of comment, but also encourage free thinking which is essentially the premise your comment is based on.
If you are looking for evidence that things like this are not just a series of individual bad actors, they also coordinated efforts to get into a helicopter, rappel down, and remove basically an entire apartment complex of citizens and alleged non-citizens alike from their homes out into the street. Some had to sit outside naked because they were not given time to put on clothing.
Thank you for your honest reply. If this was an isolated incident, why did the goons feel safe and justified immediately pointing live firearms at someone they already knew was innocent? And why did the people who hired them immediately double down with false statements about the incident that contradict reality? Perhaps the issue is systemic? Can you describe how the combination of the actions of these goons and their bosses later is “for US citizens” when there was literally no way for the goons to know the citizenship status of someone they just blatantly crashed their car into?
Can you describe how the combination of the actions of these goons and their bosses later is “for US citizens” when there was literally know way for the goons to know the citizenship status of someone they just blatantly crashed their car into?
Yeah, that’s a good point. She probably didn’t have her passport on her, that’s likely why they took her into custody and then let her go after verifying her status. But like, this probably wouldn’t have happened with the regular police, they would’ve just radioed in her DL# and had the station confirm her status without her even having to get out of her car (actually, most have a laptop in their car and can probably even do it right at the scene).
As for why they acted this way, I can only assume that it is because they are running on a LOT of adrenaline, since they often are doing high stakes operations, so perhaps their nerves just got the better of them. Still, they definitely how her restitution and an apology. But yeah, if this becomes the norm rather than the exception, something should definitely be done to reign them back in.
since they often are doing high stakes operations,
I guess pulling petite unarmed women by the hair would constitute “high stakes operations” for cowards
I’m assuming they were on their way somewhere else and the accident was a genuine mistake on their part (which they clearly handled very badly), mainly because they clearly seemed to be intent on just driving away until they noticed they were being filmed.
However, if you have any evidence that they were targeting her specifically, and they rammed her car on purpose in order to get her to stop, I’m all eyes and ears.
Doesn’t that make it worse? They tried to hit and run, realised they were being filmed, and decided instead to violently detain someone for no apparent reason.
It’s also taking a lot of supposition that they were on their way to catch ‘bad guys’ already pumped with adrenaline and making mistakes, rather than the simpler explanation that this is just how they operate.
Just a minute ago, you were trying to convince me that violently pulling her out of the car was the worst thing they did, now we’re back to the hit-and-run, which we already discussed at the beginning of the thread. We’re kinda going in circles, aren’t we?
And no, I’m not trying to excuse that either. They should have enough professionalism to admit when they fucked up, and be required to pay some sort of restitution so she can fix her car and pay for her medical bills.
However, there might be more to the story that we don’t really know about, due to the lack of evidence about what happened right before the crash. At the bottom of the article, it states that ICE additionally accused her of having used her car to block their agents from getting through. While we can clearly see that the allegations that she rammed them on purpose are false, there is not enough evidence here to verify or dismiss that claim, but even interfering with them passively is something they are allowed to detain people for, if only temporarily.
Man you’re an excuse generator. Should learn how to monetize it.
Thanks, do you have any suggestions on how? Management or politics, perhaps?
you only assume all of that because you want to justify these cowards
I guess according to you, they had a traffic aCciDEnt and then proceeded to beat and kidnap the woman they just rammed into… and thenelied about it to claim she tried to run them over?… and this is acceptable to you?
kindly go fuck yourself
A person who apologizes for nazi’s, is a nazi, too! Hey, nazi?
Yes, sure, let’s just skip all the arguments and go straight to name calling.
What are you, five years old?
if it’s a “genuine mistake” while on their way somewhere else then the narrative is this: they saw a latino driving and decided to pull her over by smashing into her car, getting out in full combat gear and masks, pointing automatic weapons at her, dragging her out of the car by her hair, kneeling on her back, and forming an armed blockade between her and the public
there’s no genuine mistake here that doesn’t paint them as racially profiling her
even if she were an undocumented armed gang member this is not the way law enforcement should behave
I agree, but what if there’s more to the story we don’t know about. The article says ICE also claimed she was using her car to block them from getting through, which which would be illegal, and if that is true, she kinda got off easy because they didn’t even charge her with anything.
However, this is not up to me to decide. This should go before a proper court of law. I am not qualified for this.
She probably didn’t have her passport on her
Wut? Most citizens don’t carry their passports around in their home country.
Yes, that’s what I was saying (though I guess if you’re Hispanic-looking and you live in a hot spot for ICE operations, it might be a pretty good idea to carry with you just in case).
Oh yes, land of the free! Carry your papers or else something bad might happen.
What if they declare your passport fake like real IDs?
Did you actually read the article?
Garcia said he was released from the vehicle where he was held after he gave the arresting officials his Social Security number, which showed he is a U.S. citizen.
Forget the passport. Apparently it’s that easy.
Dude!
No, this is perfectly fine. But better carry a passport if you look a certain way.
Can you still feel yourself?
Forget the passport, that was a dumb idea. You can get a driver’s license with RealID (which is becoming the norm in most states anyhow), or if that doesn’t work, apparently giving them your SSN is enough for them to verify your citizenship status.
I am a US citizen, and I don’t have a passport. I’m white, so I don’t have anything to worry about. I have an adopted sister who is Hispanic though, and she doesn’t have one either. I’ve been trying to convince her to get one and keep it on her person.
We live in a red state, so we’re not an ICE hot spot like Chicago is. But they are still around. They are everywhere.
If she gets arrested and released, that would be bad. But how many people are being disappeared to foreign countries they aren’t even from? That’s my biggest fear
Valid fear. Though, I suspect that if that is happening, it likely doesn’t matter if she’s legal or not. She’s still brown. Which is clearly the criteria they’re working with.
And just so we’re clear, I’m NOT defending their actions. I’m just defining how they think. I happen to think how they think is disgusting.
But we don’t live in fascism? You’re full of shit.
Hey, quick question, honest question. How heavy are those goalposts? I figure you’d be the one to ask since you have some experience in moving them.
They didn’t take long enough to get any information from her. They surrounded her with weapons drawn, opened the door, and dragged her out. I didn’t see them asking for ID. Also, nobody is expected to carry a passport. That insane.
You’re trying to come up with excuses. I get it. It’s hard to admit you were wrong. However, your previous opinions don’t define you as a person. Dismissing them is fine. It only makes you stronger. A lot of people, especially now, attach who they are as a person to the opinions that they hold, and they feel attacked when asked to address it. You shouldn’t feel this way though. That doesn’t define you. You’re allowed to, and should be expected to, learn and change as you gain new knowledge.
He’s not changing his opinion. He’s just doubling down with other, equally fucked, opinions.
Is this also protecting US citizens? https://lemmy.world/post/38281052
I’d wager they think yes because “muh gunz”
His lawyers claim he was shot from behind while trying to leave; federal officials say he reversed his car toward officers in a threatening manner.
Are we really just going trust his lawyer on this one, without any fucking evidence whatsoever?
Dude are you trying to beat the record of the most downvoted person on lemmy?
Bro I’m not even subscribed to this community. I was pinged here because y’all needed someone to make an example of.
You know that she can’t sue ICE, no one can. The Supreme Court isn’t even entertaining the idea of hearing if ICE is litigatable. Making them above the law. Literally the way things are the words of ICE, DHS, or BPS are taken as fact by courts without any investigation into the most outrageous of their claims. They’ve taken natural born citizens and disappeared them. You should really be paying attention.
Yeah, I’m definitely not cool with that. No one should be above the law. Everyone should have to face accountability at some point.
Fun fact: you can’t sue CBP or ICE for civil rights violations. Federal law enforcement is immune from suit. The federal law established to let people sue individual state actors for civil rights violation in a federal court doesn’t include federal actors.
42 USC §1983:
Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress…
Yeah, okay, that’s definitely bullshit. Every government official, no matter what position, is there by the will of the people, and they should never forget that. Which means there should always be a way to hold them accountable.
@[email protected] about a year ago, you claimed that comparing the current US dictatorship to the Nazi regime was a “ridiculous comparison”. Do you still stand by that, or do you finally see the parallels?
I am so here for this!
Since when does news get geo-blocked? The article linked and the entire website give me a “This content is not available in your region”. Is this expected from Chicago Tribune?
It’s blocked in the EU, most likely because they don’t want to comply with GDPR.
are you “there yet” America?
We are definitely something again.
Dear DHS,
These are just cowards with guns. Do better. Become an agency with dignity, honor, and basic human decency.
With all the respect you deserve,
An ex-DOD civilianEx-DOW civilian
It was the DOD long after I left, so however you want to interpret that. :)
GIVE THE NAZIS A REASON TO FEAR
DEFEND YOUR DEMOCRACY!!!
@[email protected] you have previously defended ICE as just arresting the illegals. How do you explain this?
@[email protected] I know you saw this. How do you explain ICE clearly assaulting people who aren’t immigrants?
You beautiful bastard. Keep up the good work.
my man
This should be actionable.
Seems like it’s not, though. Seems like fascism is just routine now in the US.
Americans can not sue federal “agents” according to US legal precedent and current interpretations of Section 1983
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