Thank you for your honest reply. If this was an isolated incident, why did the goons feel safe and justified immediately pointing live firearms at someone they already knew was innocent? And why did the people who hired them immediately double down with false statements about the incident that contradict reality? Perhaps the issue is systemic? Can you describe how the combination of the actions of these goons and their bosses later is “for US citizens” when there was literally no way for the goons to know the citizenship status of someone they just blatantly crashed their car into?
Can you describe how the combination of the actions of these goons and their bosses later is “for US citizens” when there was literally know way for the goons to know the citizenship status of someone they just blatantly crashed their car into?
Yeah, that’s a good point. She probably didn’t have her passport on her, that’s likely why they took her into custody and then let her go after verifying her status. But like, this probably wouldn’t have happened with the regular police, they would’ve just radioed in her DL# and had the station confirm her status without her even having to get out of her car (actually, most have a laptop in their car and can probably even do it right at the scene).
As for why they acted this way, I can only assume that it is because they are running on a LOT of adrenaline, since they often are doing high stakes operations, so perhaps their nerves just got the better of them. Still, they definitely how her restitution and an apology. But yeah, if this becomes the norm rather than the exception, something should definitely be done to reign them back in.
I’m assuming they were on their way somewhere else and the accident was a genuine mistake on their part (which they clearly handled very badly), mainly because they clearly seemed to be intent on just driving away until they noticed they were being filmed.
However, if you have any evidence that they were targeting her specifically, and they rammed her car on purpose in order to get her to stop, I’m all eyes and ears.
Doesn’t that make it worse? They tried to hit and run, realised they were being filmed, and decided instead to violently detain someone for no apparent reason.
It’s also taking a lot of supposition that they were on their way to catch ‘bad guys’ already pumped with adrenaline and making mistakes, rather than the simpler explanation that this is just how they operate.
Just a minute ago, you were trying to convince me that violently pulling her out of the car was the worst thing they did, now we’re back to the hit-and-run, which we already discussed at the beginning of the thread. We’re kinda going in circles, aren’t we?
And no, I’m not trying to excuse that either. They should have enough professionalism to admit when they fucked up, and be required to pay some sort of restitution so she can fix her car and pay for her medical bills.
However, there might be more to the story that we don’t really know about, due to the lack of evidence about what happened right before the crash. At the bottom of the article, it states that ICE additionally accused her of having used her car to block their agents from getting through. While we can clearly see that the allegations that she rammed them on purpose are false, there is not enough evidence here to verify or dismiss that claim, but even interfering with them passively is something they are allowed to detain people for, if only temporarily.
Check who you’re replying to, that was my first comment in the thread. My point was that you’re doing a lot of stretching to come up with reasons why all of their conduct was fine. They hit her, but it’s OK because she was maybe blocking them. They were going go hit and run, but it’s OK because they’ve got important business to get to. They dragged her out the car and detained her, but it’s OK because they let her go several hours later (ignoring the lack of a real reason to detain her in the first place).
How can you watch videos like this and your first response to be to leap to the defence of ICE?
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said what they did was okay, and I still believe they should compensate her for the damage they caused.
The “maybe she was blocking them” is pure speculation based on their own testimony from the article. Since they clearly already lied regarding who hit whom, I’m not inclined to believe it until I see any evidence for it. All I’m saying is there could be more to the story that we haven’t seen yet, so I’m suspending my judgment for the time being.
You seem to be going out of your way to find some justification for their actions, I’m arguing that that is backwards. You can’t just lean on ‘they should compensate her’ as if that would erase the actions.
Let’s play the hypothetical game in the opposite direction. Maybe she lost her job as a result of this. Maybe that means she can’t afford food and rent, and ended up on the street. What compensation would make that OK, and how do you imagine she’d be able to pursue it?
you only assume all of that because you want to justify these cowards
I guess according to you, they had a traffic aCciDEnt and then proceeded to beat and kidnap the woman they just rammed into… and thenelied about it to claim she tried to run them over?… and this is acceptable to you?
WTF are you talking about now? There is NO argument. I’ve been following your comments, and you’re a fucking nazi enabler, despite the clear evidence of their criminal behaviour. And anyone who enables nazi’s, is a nazi too !
Grow up instead of doubling down, you chud!
if it’s a “genuine mistake” while on their way somewhere else then the narrative is this: they saw a latino driving and decided to pull her over by smashing into her car, getting out in full combat gear and masks, pointing automatic weapons at her, dragging her out of the car by her hair, kneeling on her back, and forming an armed blockade between her and the public
there’s no genuine mistake here that doesn’t paint them as racially profiling her
even if she were an undocumented armed gang member this is not the way law enforcement should behave
I agree, but what if there’s more to the story we don’t know about. The article says ICE also claimed she was using her car to block them from getting through, which which would be illegal, and if that is true, she kinda got off easy because they didn’t even charge her with anything.
However, this is not up to me to decide. This should go before a proper court of law. I am not qualified for this.
Yes, that’s what I was saying (though I guess if you’re Hispanic-looking and you live in a hot spot for ICE operations, it might be a pretty good idea to carry with you just in case).
Garcia said he was released from the vehicle where he was held after he gave the arresting officials his Social Security number, which showed he is a U.S. citizen.
Yeah, like I already said, if this was a genuine mistake on their part, as it appears to be, they should definitely have to pay for her damages, as well as any medical bills and missed time at work. No question about that.
Also, maybe the arresting “agents” should be sacked…? No? You have nothing for “agents” whose first instinct is always to be brutal, and to suppress others rights…?
I don’t think you are a nice or even decent person. Your neighbors must keep one eye on you, at all times.
Aren’t you republicans always up in arms about having to show your papers like Soviet Russia? In a free country, you don’t have to do that. Being brown isn’t probably cause or reasonable suspicion.
We have such incredible law enforcement agencies, I’m sure they can find actual evidence through investigations that they don’t need this easy button of demanding everyone show their papers.
Forget the passport, that was a dumb idea. You can get a driver’s license with RealID (which is becoming the norm in most states anyhow), or if that doesn’t work, apparently giving them your SSN is enough for them to verify your citizenship status.
I am a US citizen, and I don’t have a passport. I’m white, so I don’t have anything to worry about. I have an adopted sister who is Hispanic though, and she doesn’t have one either. I’ve been trying to convince her to get one and keep it on her person.
We live in a red state, so we’re not an ICE hot spot like Chicago is. But they are still around. They are everywhere.
If she gets arrested and released, that would be bad. But how many people are being disappeared to foreign countries they aren’t even from? That’s my biggest fear
Valid fear. Though, I suspect that if that is happening, it likely doesn’t matter if she’s legal or not. She’s still brown. Which is clearly the criteria they’re working with.
And just so we’re clear, I’m NOT defending their actions. I’m just defining how they think. I happen to think how they think is disgusting.
They didn’t take long enough to get any information from her. They surrounded her with weapons drawn, opened the door, and dragged her out. I didn’t see them asking for ID. Also, nobody is expected to carry a passport. That insane.
You’re trying to come up with excuses. I get it. It’s hard to admit you were wrong. However, your previous opinions don’t define you as a person. Dismissing them is fine. It only makes you stronger. A lot of people, especially now, attach who they are as a person to the opinions that they hold, and they feel attacked when asked to address it. You shouldn’t feel this way though. That doesn’t define you. You’re allowed to, and should be expected to, learn and change as you gain new knowledge.
Thank you for your honest reply. If this was an isolated incident, why did the goons feel safe and justified immediately pointing live firearms at someone they already knew was innocent? And why did the people who hired them immediately double down with false statements about the incident that contradict reality? Perhaps the issue is systemic? Can you describe how the combination of the actions of these goons and their bosses later is “for US citizens” when there was literally no way for the goons to know the citizenship status of someone they just blatantly crashed their car into?
Yeah, that’s a good point. She probably didn’t have her passport on her, that’s likely why they took her into custody and then let her go after verifying her status. But like, this probably wouldn’t have happened with the regular police, they would’ve just radioed in her DL# and had the station confirm her status without her even having to get out of her car (actually, most have a laptop in their car and can probably even do it right at the scene).
As for why they acted this way, I can only assume that it is because they are running on a LOT of adrenaline, since they often are doing high stakes operations, so perhaps their nerves just got the better of them. Still, they definitely how her restitution and an apology. But yeah, if this becomes the norm rather than the exception, something should definitely be done to reign them back in.
I guess pulling petite unarmed women by the hair would constitute “high stakes operations” for cowards
I’m assuming they were on their way somewhere else and the accident was a genuine mistake on their part (which they clearly handled very badly), mainly because they clearly seemed to be intent on just driving away until they noticed they were being filmed.
However, if you have any evidence that they were targeting her specifically, and they rammed her car on purpose in order to get her to stop, I’m all eyes and ears.
Doesn’t that make it worse? They tried to hit and run, realised they were being filmed, and decided instead to violently detain someone for no apparent reason.
It’s also taking a lot of supposition that they were on their way to catch ‘bad guys’ already pumped with adrenaline and making mistakes, rather than the simpler explanation that this is just how they operate.
Just a minute ago, you were trying to convince me that violently pulling her out of the car was the worst thing they did, now we’re back to the hit-and-run, which we already discussed at the beginning of the thread. We’re kinda going in circles, aren’t we?
And no, I’m not trying to excuse that either. They should have enough professionalism to admit when they fucked up, and be required to pay some sort of restitution so she can fix her car and pay for her medical bills.
However, there might be more to the story that we don’t really know about, due to the lack of evidence about what happened right before the crash. At the bottom of the article, it states that ICE additionally accused her of having used her car to block their agents from getting through. While we can clearly see that the allegations that she rammed them on purpose are false, there is not enough evidence here to verify or dismiss that claim, but even interfering with them passively is something they are allowed to detain people for, if only temporarily.
Check who you’re replying to, that was my first comment in the thread. My point was that you’re doing a lot of stretching to come up with reasons why all of their conduct was fine. They hit her, but it’s OK because she was maybe blocking them. They were going go hit and run, but it’s OK because they’ve got important business to get to. They dragged her out the car and detained her, but it’s OK because they let her go several hours later (ignoring the lack of a real reason to detain her in the first place).
How can you watch videos like this and your first response to be to leap to the defence of ICE?
Because intellectually and morally, he is one of them. Probably, he’s just too dweebish to be actually accepted as an “agent”, even by ICE…
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said what they did was okay, and I still believe they should compensate her for the damage they caused.
The “maybe she was blocking them” is pure speculation based on their own testimony from the article. Since they clearly already lied regarding who hit whom, I’m not inclined to believe it until I see any evidence for it. All I’m saying is there could be more to the story that we haven’t seen yet, so I’m suspending my judgment for the time being.
You seem to be going out of your way to find some justification for their actions, I’m arguing that that is backwards. You can’t just lean on ‘they should compensate her’ as if that would erase the actions.
Let’s play the hypothetical game in the opposite direction. Maybe she lost her job as a result of this. Maybe that means she can’t afford food and rent, and ended up on the street. What compensation would make that OK, and how do you imagine she’d be able to pursue it?
Man you’re an excuse generator. Should learn how to monetize it.
Thanks, do you have any suggestions on how? Management or politics, perhaps?
you only assume all of that because you want to justify these cowards
I guess according to you, they had a traffic aCciDEnt and then proceeded to beat and kidnap the woman they just rammed into… and thenelied about it to claim she tried to run them over?… and this is acceptable to you?
kindly go fuck yourself
A person who apologizes for nazi’s, is a nazi, too! Hey, nazi?
Yes, sure, let’s just skip all the arguments and go straight to name calling.
What are you, five years old?
WTF are you talking about now? There is NO argument. I’ve been following your comments, and you’re a fucking nazi enabler, despite the clear evidence of their criminal behaviour. And anyone who enables nazi’s, is a nazi too ! Grow up instead of doubling down, you chud!
Words, words, words
Keep telling yourself that, nazi ! Then you don’t need to look at yourself and see how foul and ugly your kind really is.
if it’s a “genuine mistake” while on their way somewhere else then the narrative is this: they saw a latino driving and decided to pull her over by smashing into her car, getting out in full combat gear and masks, pointing automatic weapons at her, dragging her out of the car by her hair, kneeling on her back, and forming an armed blockade between her and the public
there’s no genuine mistake here that doesn’t paint them as racially profiling her
even if she were an undocumented armed gang member this is not the way law enforcement should behave
I agree, but what if there’s more to the story we don’t know about. The article says ICE also claimed she was using her car to block them from getting through, which which would be illegal, and if that is true, she kinda got off easy because they didn’t even charge her with anything.
However, this is not up to me to decide. This should go before a proper court of law. I am not qualified for this.
Wut? Most citizens don’t carry their passports around in their home country.
Yes, that’s what I was saying (though I guess if you’re Hispanic-looking and you live in a hot spot for ICE operations, it might be a pretty good idea to carry with you just in case).
Oh yes, land of the free! Carry your papers or else something bad might happen.
What if they declare your passport fake like real IDs?
Did you actually read the article?
Forget the passport. Apparently it’s that easy.
Who’s paying for the vehicle damage?
What happens when the victim is late for work?
That doesn’t sound easy all.
Yeah, like I already said, if this was a genuine mistake on their part, as it appears to be, they should definitely have to pay for her damages, as well as any medical bills and missed time at work. No question about that.
Also, maybe the arresting “agents” should be sacked…? No? You have nothing for “agents” whose first instinct is always to be brutal, and to suppress others rights…? I don’t think you are a nice or even decent person. Your neighbors must keep one eye on you, at all times.
Aren’t you republicans always up in arms about having to show your papers like Soviet Russia? In a free country, you don’t have to do that. Being brown isn’t probably cause or reasonable suspicion.
We have such incredible law enforcement agencies, I’m sure they can find actual evidence through investigations that they don’t need this easy button of demanding everyone show their papers.
First of all, she is driving a car. Carrying a license and proof of insurance is already mandatory in that case (and for good reason).
Second of all, how difficult is it to remember a single nine digit number? You’re making it seem a lot more difficult than it really is.
Dude!
Can you still feel yourself?
Forget the passport, that was a dumb idea. You can get a driver’s license with RealID (which is becoming the norm in most states anyhow), or if that doesn’t work, apparently giving them your SSN is enough for them to verify your citizenship status.
I am a US citizen, and I don’t have a passport. I’m white, so I don’t have anything to worry about. I have an adopted sister who is Hispanic though, and she doesn’t have one either. I’ve been trying to convince her to get one and keep it on her person.
We live in a red state, so we’re not an ICE hot spot like Chicago is. But they are still around. They are everywhere.
If she gets arrested and released, that would be bad. But how many people are being disappeared to foreign countries they aren’t even from? That’s my biggest fear
Valid fear. Though, I suspect that if that is happening, it likely doesn’t matter if she’s legal or not. She’s still brown. Which is clearly the criteria they’re working with.
And just so we’re clear, I’m NOT defending their actions. I’m just defining how they think. I happen to think how they think is disgusting.
But we don’t live in fascism? You’re full of shit.
Hey, quick question, honest question. How heavy are those goalposts? I figure you’d be the one to ask since you have some experience in moving them.
They didn’t take long enough to get any information from her. They surrounded her with weapons drawn, opened the door, and dragged her out. I didn’t see them asking for ID. Also, nobody is expected to carry a passport. That insane.
You’re trying to come up with excuses. I get it. It’s hard to admit you were wrong. However, your previous opinions don’t define you as a person. Dismissing them is fine. It only makes you stronger. A lot of people, especially now, attach who they are as a person to the opinions that they hold, and they feel attacked when asked to address it. You shouldn’t feel this way though. That doesn’t define you. You’re allowed to, and should be expected to, learn and change as you gain new knowledge.
He’s not changing his opinion. He’s just doubling down with other, equally fucked, opinions.
Is this also protecting US citizens? https://lemmy.world/post/38281052
I’d wager they think yes because “muh gunz”
Are we really just going trust his lawyer on this one, without any fucking evidence whatsoever?
Dude are you trying to beat the record of the most downvoted person on lemmy?
Bro I’m not even subscribed to this community. I was pinged here because y’all needed someone to make an example of.